[For the love of the game]

With all the recent violence going on (not all gun related) at schools, movie theatres, malls, clubs etc, I thought I would start a thread on gun control. As this can be a emotionally charged subject, I sought permission and was given the ok to start this. Lets keep it civil as possible please.

As a father of a daugher in kindergarten the recent shooting at Sandy Hook really hit home. With that and the fact that I have a baby on the way, that pushed me from leaning to getting a gun and a conceal carry permit to getting a gun and taking/ awaiting my permit. I did so to at least have a chance to protect my growing family from the evil of the world.

I feel that something needs to be done. I do not think banning assault riffles is the key and neither is banning high capacity clip. My personal feeling is that the answer lies somewhere it the background check area and the mental illness area. That raises the whole slipperly slop agruement which it a good point as well.

Lets discuss and again, please keep it civil.

[Captain Hi-Top]

Before any discussion on gun control gets underway, and without knowing your background at all, only the information you provided in your initial post, I implore you to do anything and everything possible to maintain a safe home environment and keep any firearms secure and out of reach from children.

Also, and again, without knowing your background or familiarity with firearms, I would strongly suggest regular trips to the range and/or training to become more familiar with your purchase for both you and your wife. A healthy respect for firearms, and familiarity with operation is key from an ownership and use stand point.

[For the love of the game]

Captain Hi-Top, on 14 January 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Before any discussion on gun control gets underway, and without knowing your background at all, only the information you provided in your initial post, I implore you to do anything and everything possible to maintain a safe home environment and keep any firearms secure and out of reach from children.

Also, and again, without knowing your background or familiarity with firearms, I would strongly suggest regular trips to the range and/or training to become more familiar with your purchase for both you and your wife. A healthy respect for firearms, and familiarity with operation is key from an ownership and use stand point.

Very good point. I grew up around guns (dad was and still is in law enforcement). I have been shooting on a regular basis my whole life but never owned a gun until recently. Mine are well secured and I have already discussed this with my daughter.

Your second point brings up an area I think could be expored more. The CWP course is a joke and I feel more training should be done before getting this and also before owning a gun. This would not stop the crimes but would at least stop or slow the senseless accidental shooting.

[Ibn Battuta]

Even with these mass shootings, gun homicides have continued to decrease I believe.

The reality is nothing can be done to 100% stop these occurrences. You could have someone stupid like the mom in Sandy Hook give the autistic son the weapons to carry out the deed. I do believe if the principal or some select faculty at the school had access to a firearm and appropriate training then it would have reduced the fatalities.

Regards to gun control I don't think something can or should be done to manipulate the supply of guns because it would either break the constitution or be financially unfeasible (like a buyback program).

[Drunk On Mystery]

Ibn Battuta, on 14 January 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Even with these mass shootings, gun homicides have continued to decrease I believe.

Violent crime rates peaked in 1993, and were in freefall up until about 2 years ago when they plateaued.

Despite what watching the news would have you believe, you're less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than at any point since the 1960s.

[For the love of the game]

Drunk On Mystery, on 14 January 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Violent crime rates peaked in 1993, and were in freefall up until about 2 years ago when they plateaued.

Despite what watching the news would have you believe, you're less likely to be the victim of a violent crime today than at any point since the 1960s.

I did not know that. Did something happen (law passing etc) in 1993 to lead to the freefall?

[For the love of the game]

Ibn Battuta, on 14 January 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Even with these mass shootings, gun homicides have continued to decrease I believe.

The reality is nothing can be done to 100% stop these occurrences. You could have someone stupid like the mom in Sandy Hook give the autistic son the weapons to carry out the deed. I do believe if the principal or some select faculty at the school had access to a firearm and appropriate training then it would have reduced the fatalities.

Regards to gun control I don't think something can or should be done to manipulate the supply of guns because it would either break the constitution or be financially unfeasible (like a buyback program).

I think if someone at the school had a gun it COULD have reduced the fatalities. The issue with schools being a gun free zone is that law means nothing to the crazy adult or pissed off student from bringing a gun in.

[Drunk On Mystery]

For the love of the game, on 14 January 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

I did not know that. Did something happen (law passing etc) in 1993 to lead to the freefall?

I just re-checked the data, and it was actually 1994 when it peaked, not '93.

And yes, something happened. The US government, reacting to several high profile violent crimes that gained national media attention, passed the largest crime bill in US History: The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, or as I like to call it, Joe Biden kicks violent crime right in its goddamned nutsack.

It's worth noting that the bill's biggest individual aspect was the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, which banned the sale of assault weapons and extended magazines.

[Ibn Battuta]

For the love of the game, on 14 January 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

I did not know that. Did something happen (law passing etc) in 1993 to lead to the freefall?

There are dozens of theories depending on which political belief system you adhere to. Some say policies like the broken window or don't shoot in New York and Boston respectively are the cause; others say the economy and living standard increase dropped crime rates. Some even say the rise in abortions has led to decrease in crime. It's nothing that solely happened in 93.

[Ibn Battuta]

For the love of the game, on 14 January 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

I think if someone at the school had a gun it COULD have reduced the fatalities. The issue with schools being a gun free zone is that law means nothing to the crazy adult or pissed off student from bringing a gun in.

That law is stupid for that exact reason; it only deters the law abiding citizen from carrying.

[For the love of the game]

Ibn Battuta, on 14 January 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

That law is stupid for that exact reason; it only deters the law abiding citizen from carrying.

I understand the gun free law at sporting events, bars and federal buildings. Its commen sense really since I would not want some crazy over emotional drunk fan lose it and open fire because someone knocked his beer over, ditto for the bar, and the grieving dad at court for the trial of his boy's killer just lose control. I even understand the concept of a school being gun free is to protect our kids. But the very law also leaves them without any protection.

[Captain Hi-Top]

Drunk On Mystery, on 14 January 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I just re-checked the data, and it was actually 1994 when it peaked, not '93.

And yes, something happened. The US government, reacting to several high profile violent crimes that gained national media attention, passed the largest crime bill in US History: The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, or as I like to call it, Joe Biden kicks violent crime right in its goddamned nutsack.

It's worth noting that the bill's biggest individual aspect was the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, which banned the sale of assault weapons and extended magazines.

Not that you made this point, but someone else recently brought this up, and pointed to the decline in violent crime as being directly attributed to the "assault weapons ban", neglecting the fact that violent crime did not reverse course and escalate once the ban ended in 2004.